tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8771666371746650057.post3997555755634124924..comments2023-11-03T05:34:26.880-05:00Comments on The Whited Sepulchre: Libertarian CredoThe Whited Sepulchrehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17657366124122012622noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8771666371746650057.post-63800427755435946222009-12-23T13:03:27.506-06:002009-12-23T13:03:27.506-06:00Let me see if I can illustrate the difference betw...Let me see if I can illustrate the difference between harm as the standard and rights as the standard with another example. <br /><br />If a thief steals a car, I suspect most people would agree that it is just for the police to take the car away from the thief and return it to its owner. The thief is, without question, harmed by this because he is no longer able to enjoy the use of the car. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8771666371746650057.post-22945899487903120382009-12-22T13:27:11.242-06:002009-12-22T13:27:11.242-06:00Call me ignorant, but I fail to see the obvious di...Call me ignorant, but I fail to see the obvious difference between rights and harm.<br /><br />Someone still has come up with a list of "rights".<br /><br />In your example, you can open up a competing store across the street and that, in and of itself, would not violate my rights.<br /><br />But, if you were to start giving products away or selling at an obvious loss in order to drive Garhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12421024873842186683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8771666371746650057.post-17508840168635746012009-12-22T13:06:53.912-06:002009-12-22T13:06:53.912-06:00Stephen: I have no quarrel with your comments on &...Stephen: I have no quarrel with your comments on "harm" -- when I used the term I was responding to WS's statement: "As long as your actions don't cause harm to me and mine, what you do is none of my business."<br /><br />I'd say your (Stephen's) comment was dead on, and doesn't (at least in my mind) contradict the point I was trying to make. <br /><br />Dr Ralphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11315005375209513833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8771666371746650057.post-66526335167229415152009-12-21T14:38:08.536-06:002009-12-21T14:38:08.536-06:00Browncoat/WS, I fear you've gone after a red h...Browncoat/WS, I fear you've gone after a red herring here. "Harm" is not the standard. The question is not whether Person A has harmed Person B, but rather whether Person A has violated Person B's rights.<br /><br />If you own a store and I open up a competing store across the street, you can claim that I've harmed you by taking business away. But I haven't violated Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8771666371746650057.post-22707532220374813622009-12-20T19:41:26.421-06:002009-12-20T19:41:26.421-06:00Doc - Perhaps you missed the smiley face at the en...Doc - Perhaps you missed the smiley face at the end of my post intended to take some of the edge off of my post.<br /><br />Gar's example was a silly strawman, nothing more....and the "progressive" answer to his strawman: take all the guns away. Let's not bother with a liberty litmus test first, let's just take the guns away and be done with it (I'm not implying that Browncoat Libertarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17382947284829092569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8771666371746650057.post-31832074286219402742009-12-20T19:40:15.168-06:002009-12-20T19:40:15.168-06:00Hey Allen,
We met at the Flying Saucer for the LP...Hey Allen,<br /><br />We met at the Flying Saucer for the LP Meetup a few weeks ago.<br /><br />Well, I was thinking that if this super-government isn't necessary to resolve disputes among governments then why is a monopoly government necessary to resolve disputes among individuals. Or isn't it?justinohttp://whoplanswhom.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8771666371746650057.post-85581940560612705142009-12-20T17:22:14.041-06:002009-12-20T17:22:14.041-06:00All,
I'm feeling kinda threatened and fearful ...All,<br />I'm feeling kinda threatened and fearful because of all this, and I just might require some government intervention to help me get over the trauma. <br /><br />(I think you know where I'm headed from here, so I'll spare you.) <br /><br />Justino,<br />Who the heck are you? Have our paths crossed before? Consider yourself blogrolled, BTW. Hope you can return the favor. <The Whited Sepulchrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17657366124122012622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8771666371746650057.post-8555433191694714052009-12-20T13:45:42.334-06:002009-12-20T13:45:42.334-06:00Browncoat -- I was surprised at the vehemence of y...Browncoat -- I was surprised at the vehemence of your reaction, and of course do not wish to cause offense (or is that harm).<br /><br />Let's ignore examples for the moment and circle back to my 2 questions.<br /><br />1. What constitutes "harm?"<br /><br />2. Who is the final arbitrator of whether someone has been harmed?<br /><br />Far be it for me to offer a solution: I was Dr Ralphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11315005375209513833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8771666371746650057.post-41857488465219224962009-12-20T12:11:23.509-06:002009-12-20T12:11:23.509-06:00Mr. Whited, I admit I did not go read about Extern...Mr. Whited, I admit I did not go read about Externalities (yet) so I don't know why I'm going to stick my neck out on this one...<br /><br />But, your example of the AK-47 is maybe not good. Is fear harm? If I get up in the morning and go out to sunbathe in my backyard and your crazy-ass self is out in <b>your</b> backyard safely firing an AK-47 at beer cans, I'm not gonna be happy.Garhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12421024873842186683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8771666371746650057.post-46138306423881077722009-12-20T12:03:56.690-06:002009-12-20T12:03:56.690-06:00Hey Allen,
I think I understand where you are com...Hey Allen,<br /><br />I think I understand where you are coming from. <br /><br />Don't you think we also need "a structure in place to enforce contracts" between governments, kind like a government's government?justinohttp://whoplanswhom.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8771666371746650057.post-14886518578582062022009-12-20T11:15:19.200-06:002009-12-20T11:15:19.200-06:00I'm a little late to the show, but Doc's s...I'm a little late to the show, but Doc's shut-up-and-bow to the "Greater Good" response incenses me:<br /><br />No, Doc, here's the "rub" with your solution:<br /><br />Obliterate personal liberty trying to accommodate EVERYONE'S interpretation of "harm". <br /><br />Paralyze society with an incomprehensible and endless set of laws and regulations Browncoat Libertarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17382947284829092569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8771666371746650057.post-13228273095410813702009-12-20T11:10:03.838-06:002009-12-20T11:10:03.838-06:00Gar, and Doctor,
BOTH of you caught me on this one...Gar, and Doctor,<br />BOTH of you caught me on this one. <br />There is a caveat that I forgot to include: Externalities. <br /><br />As long as the sound of Barry's golden voice, the bullets from the AK-47, the sight of the vertically-challenged strippers, or the smell of The Doctor's hogs doesn't come onto my property, we're cool. <br /><br />If either of you contribute to The Whited Sepulchrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17657366124122012622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8771666371746650057.post-83275873330460498372009-12-19T17:56:46.430-06:002009-12-19T17:56:46.430-06:00To expand on what Gar said, *your* opinion of what...To expand on what Gar said, *your* opinion of what hurts me and *my* opinion of what hurts me might vary by a wide margin. And there in lies the rub.<br /><br />Who decides?<br /><br />Does your deciding to open a pig farm next to my house harm me? And how do we decide what constitutes "harm?" <br /><br />Your pig farm causes my house to loose value. Has that harmed me?<br /><br />Your Dr Ralphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11315005375209513833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8771666371746650057.post-8324338810204057882009-12-19T10:04:12.609-06:002009-12-19T10:04:12.609-06:00How can a guy on a crystal meth binge with gay mid...How can a guy on a crystal meth binge with gay midget hookers in a gas-guzzling SUV outfitted with semi-automatic weapons and the complete works of Barry Manilow on 8-track <b>not</b> harm me?<br /><br />I mean, my head hurts just thinking about it. Think of the eye sore. Think of the disturbance of the peace hearing Barry Manilow at too many decibels. I don't know. I think you may have Garhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12421024873842186683noreply@blogger.com