Tuesday, August 23, 2011

I don't believe we have any boots on our throats yet, but....

....this is kinda cool to think about. 


16 comments:

Nick said...

Let's see:

The water company refused to reduce my wasteflow factor even though half my water goes onto the lawn.

The assessors office won't lower my property txes even though all recent sales comps are 20% below my purchase price. They actually increased my bill.

I am required by law to purchase two carbon monoxide detectors to prevent the 1 in a million chance I might die from CO poisoning.

The local transit system can't get me home in less than 90 minutes, and the cops won't arrest violent protestors who shut down transit stations.

I can't legally carry a handgun to protect my life from deranged lunatics and criminals who were released from prison because of overcrowding. Even if I were blessed with a state concealed carry permit, if I actually had to use the firearm, I would be arrested first and interrogated later.

It took four years fighting with government employees to fix my military retirement points, and they're still not correct.

My tax dollars are paying to support deadbeats, losers, crooked bankers, and stupid borrowers.

The only thing standing between me and a secure retirement are onerous taxes and excessively high insurance rates.

Laws protecting the hypersensitive threaten my livelihood.

There's not a single elected official in DC who can or will do what it takes to fix our problems.

I assure you there are already boot prints on my neck.

Cedric Katesby said...

The Jackboot of Oppression.
It starts with licence plates.

Nick said...

Yeah, Cedric, it's really guys like those who I worry about. Every time I see a white Dodge caravan with no far right wing bumper stickers, I become terrified.

But what really scares me more Cedric, is that silent killer...

Carbon monoxide.

Every year it takes the lives of 40 Californians - more than all the cops killed in the entire nation by white anti-government extremists. Unlike anti-government extremists, carbon monoxide can't be seen or heard. It doesn't break into your house - you let it in.

Carbon monoxide can come from any source of burning fossil fuels. Yes, even white Dodge caravans.

It may just appear on a microscopic level like any other naturally occurring molecule, but CO is a wolf in sheep's clothing. A soulless killer.

But thank God I've got government telling me to buy carbon monoxide detectors. They don't always work, and sometimes they sound an alarm when CO isn't present, but they might just save my life.

My son's teacher's brother's pet parakeet died at the whim of carbon monoxide. It kills without passion, prejudice, or remorse.

So, Cedric, the next time you see a fat dude and his son in a minivan, remember that you face greater risks from their tailpipe than a firearm in their car.

This message brought to you jointly by Citizens Accepting Objective Reality and Concerned Scientists for Proportional Facts.

Cedric Katesby said...

Yeah, Cedric, it's really guys like those who I worry about.

In the real world, killing police going about their normal day-to-day duties is not considered to be a good thing. Most people would be horrified and disgusted by that. Those police officers were murdered in cold blood.
Yet you don't seem to understand that and prefer to go off on a rant. Hmm.

Nick said...

No, Cedric, I have tremendous sympathy for those officers and their families. I was pleased to see the murdering scumbags brought to justice.

But unlike yoy, I dont draw broad inferences from a video that is nothing more than an ANECDOTE.

Just a few days ago you tried to lecture me about logical fallacies, yet here you are presenting a blatant appeal to emotion.

We're supposed to donate money to the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League, and rally in the streets to stop the hoards of white-faced, pot-bellied fascists from overrunning the country! That's the only message we get from your pathetic plea.

You are rejecting reality and substituting your own. You're hysterical in the false belief that armed anti-government bigots are crawling out from every rock. You alluded that libertarian ideals are somehow connected to irrational anarchist sentiments.

You put your "tirade" in the form of a link, and I deconstructed it with a suitable analogy.

Cedric Katesby said...

No, Cedric, I have tremendous sympathy for those officers and their families. I was pleased to see the murdering scumbags brought to justice.

Glad to hear it. It would be easier to believe if that was the focus of your previous post. You, however, chose to deflect and rant away.

That's the only message we get from your pathetic plea.

No. None of what you are ranting about was mentioned even once in the video. All the stuff about SPLC and the ADL and the "white-faced, pot-bellied fascists" comes from your own fevered imagination.
I certainly didn't bring any of that up. Nothing to do with me.
Try watching the video rather than just frothing at the mouth and talking to yourself.

You are rejecting reality and substituting your own.

Nope. Those police officers really are dead. It really did happen. The Sovereign Citizen movement really does exist. There are more crazies out there. Your own government law enforcement agencies recognise them as a serious threat. Domestic terrorism-it's not just a pretty phrase.


You alluded that libertarian ideals are somehow connected to irrational anarchist sentiments.

Nope. I know nothing about "libertarian ideals". Didn't mention them. I just looked at your own comments. Your words. Not "libertarianism" in general, just you. You believe that there are "bootprints on your neck". The gubbiment is messing with you. Near as I can figure it, an SC would feel very happy saying the same thing. Go ahead and quote anything from yourself from your first comment that clearly puts you a world apart from the SC nutters.

Griping about your own government I understand. Yet talking about Jack Boots on your neck is a disconnect with reality. (Unless, you were only just "kidding around.")

They are seemingly ordinary people just like you and me but they don't recongnise the federal governments authority to impose laws or taxes on them. They are called sovereign citizens. Their beliefs may sound so "out there" that they appear comical or crazy but don't discount or ignore these people. They are willing to kill or be killed for these beliefs.

Nick said...

I dont need to "focus" on the deaths of police officers, Cedric when clearly you are propping up their corpses only for the sake of your propaganda.

You dont honor or respect them - youre dancing on their graves. I honor and respect cops, all the time, but I also recognize the relatively few cops who abuse their authority.

The focus of your video was clearly that these extremist anti-government groups exist and are far more dangerous than we imagine. And i put it in the proper perspective - that the number deaths of cops in the US at the hands of these criminals is small, and you are whipped into an hysteria with irrational fear. More cops die by getting hit by cars than being gunned down by SCs.

So an SC and I would make similar statements about government. So what? Are you implying I'm about to go shoot cops now because we have similar beliefs? Because we both own guns? Non sequitir!

What puts me a world apart from those nutters, Cedric, is that I dont kill people. Im not holding rallies suggesting we should shoot up government offices. Since i actually work for the government, that would be pretty silly. When i go to work, Cedric, Im not looking over my shoulder for SC guys. Im looking for the drug addict who wants my wallet or the mentally ill derelict looking for his next victim. It is my government and my cops who are failing to keep these criminals off the streets, and my government and my cops who deny me the right to prtect myself.

I watched the entire video, Cedric, from beginning to end. I saw exactly what you wanted us to see - what you baited us into seeing with your license plate comment, as if we didnt know already from your character that you were about to deliver a load of manure. The video shows the shocking deaths of two cops by some nuts. Im not unsympathetix to their deaths, by im not at all moved by your argument. Of course you didnt "say" any of that stuff. Thats the modus operandi of the propagandist - present an image, and allow it to do your speaking for you. Youre a coward without the gonads to make a cogent argument on your own.

In one day, one black guy in Oakland killed four police officers in an incident that began as a traffic stop. Am i to infer that black people are dangerous, Cedric?

Another day, a guy walked into a coffee shop and gunned down several cops. Am i supposed to be worried about getting a cup of coffee?

Your point wasnt about sympathy for cops, but fear of a particular kind of criminal - a kind that I will likely never see as long as I live because there are so few of them. Im far more at risk from MS13 punks or some homeless guy with a knife than I am any anti-government types. I live in the REAL world Cedric. You live in the world where a You Tube video is supposedly evidence for something. You used an ANECDOTE to present the idea that a problem is bigger than it really is. Its like showing video of a drowned polar bear to "prove" global warming. It meaningless drivel.

I can clearly see the oppressive boot of government in many facets of my life. I wasnt kidding at all. My eyes are wide open. Youre a slave, and a fool.

Cedric Katesby said...

I dont need to "focus" on the deaths of police officers, Cedric when clearly you are propping up their corpses only for the sake of your propaganda.

I posted a video on domestic terrorism made by one of the victim's own father. You reacted by going off on a very defensive and bizzare rant.

The focus of your video was clearly that these extremist anti-government groups exist and are far more dangerous than we imagine. And i put it in the proper perspective...
(...)
More cops die by getting hit by cars than being gunned down by SCs.


Your "perspective" is not shared by the FBI and other law enforcement agencies that deal with domestic terrorism.

So an SC and I would make similar statements about government. So what?

Yes, indeed they would.
Thank you.
The SC would be happy to give you a "hi-five" and buy you a beer.
That was the only reason I posted the video. You may not be an SC. You just sound like 'em.

What puts me a world apart from those nutters, Cedric, is that I dont kill people. Im not holding rallies suggesting we should shoot up government offices.

Yeah, but that's what the SC say too. Most Sovereign Citizens don't kill people either. Heavens no! They're very peaceful-sounding when they want to sound sane and reasonable. If you want to put some distance between yourself and the nutters then the "I don't go around killing people" defence will not work very well.

When i go to work, Cedric, Im not looking over my shoulder for SC guys. Im looking for the drug addict...

Oh, so now you want to deflect and talk about something else not related to the video?
(yawn)

I saw exactly what you wanted us to see - what you baited us into seeing with your license plate comment...

No. You just went off on a rant about carbon monoxide and the SLPC and the ADL, "pot-bellied fascists" and goodness knows what else. Nothing to do with me or the video for that matter. That was all 100% from you.

The video shows the shocking deaths of two cops by some nuts. Im not unsympathetix to their deaths...

No, of course not. I believe you. You just "recognize the relatively few cops who abuse their authority." You feel an immediate, overpowering need to put things in "proper perspective". You want people to remember the dangers of cabon monoxide. It's a "wolf in sheeps clothing". It's a "souless killer". Not that you're unsympathetic to cops being gunned down or anything. Oh no. But hey, people? What about carbon monoxide?
Hey?
Hmm.

I can clearly see the oppressive boot of government in many facets of my life. I wasnt kidding at all. My eyes are wide open. Youre a slave, and a fool.

Yep. Your words speak volumes.
You are not just having a good-natured gripe.
You really believe that you are being oppressed by the gubbiment.
The boot marks are really and truly on your neck. You are not kidding at all.

You really think like that.

Nick said...

Youre not an idiot Cedric. You just sound like one.

The FBI and I have exactly the same perspective on extremist groups. And on cops being hit by cars.

Im deflecting nothing Cedric except your hysterical fear of bogeymen, sovereign citizens, alien anal probes, and death by carbon monoxide. Youre worked into a lather about a problem that, while potentially deadly, is among the least consequential concerns of law enforcement. Ive heard a lot of complaints and concerns from cops, and sovereign citizens wasnt ever one of the them...ever.

A city councilman was just gunned down yesterday when he wandered into a marijuana field near Ft Bragg, CA. Hint: the killer wasnt a sovereign citizen.

The odds of me getting killed by an Al Qaeda terrorist are a hundred times greater than being killed by an SC, and I dont pay much attention to the threat of Al Qaeda terrorists.

A guy just killed a woman in San Francisco when he ran a Stop sign on his bike. The Great Bicycle Menace! Yes, Cedric, the odds of me getting killed by a militant bicyclist are about 10,000 times greater than me being killed by a SC. But because theyre, you know, saving the planet from carbon monoxide they get a free pass.

More people died from Hurricane Irene than have been killed in the past year by sovereign citizens. I suggest you go shout at the wind.

Cedric Katesby said...

The FBI and I have exactly the same perspective on extremist groups. And on cops being hit by cars.

Liar. All you can do is rant and wave your hands. What you can't do is take back your own statements. They are right there in black and white. And you did it all by yourself.

I'm deflecting nothing...

...and then you go off on a rant and deflect some more. The irony.

City councilmen? Al Queda? Militant bicyclists? hurricanes? My oh my. Whatever next?

So an SC and I would make similar statements about government. So what?

Yes, indeed they would. Going off on yet another rant doesn't change that.
You may not be an SC but you do sound like 'em.
(shrug)

Nick said...

Im taking back nothing Cedric. i meant every word. I am right and you are wrong.

I care deeply about the lives of law enforcement officers and celebrate the deaths of the scumbags who harm them. But I wont be roused into irrational fear by any anecdotes from a simperIng coward like you. Nor will I tolerate you parading out the corpses of dead cops as some flimsy motivation for statist, jack-boots face-stomping on law abiding citizens while in hot pursuit of the MINUSCULE percentage of crazed criminals like the ones portrayed in your video anecdote.

I deflected nothing. I was putting your pants-wetting, diaper-crapping and loathesome appeal to emotion into its proper perspective. Of all the things in this world that could possibly kill me tomorrow, Sovereign Citizens wouldnt make my Top Ten Thousand list.

I am rightly more afraid of contracting West Nile Virus and dying from a mosquito bite than I am of Soveriegn Citizens.

I am rightly more afraid of cancer radon gas or cell phones than I am a Sovereign Citizen.

I am rightly more afraid of some paleo-Marxist, high on marijuana, than I am a Sovereign Citizen.

I am rightly more afraid of having a SWAT team bust into my house at night because they got the wrong address than I am of Sovereign Citizens.

I am rightly more afraid that an Airbus A320 will lose an engine and have it crash through my roof than I am a Sovereign Citizen.

Im rightly more afraid that I will be attacked by a mountain lion on my next run than I am a Sovereign Citizen.

I am rightly more afraid of the light rail train Im riding on running a red light, and colliding with an M1 tank than I am a Sovereign Citizen.

So does that put your puckered orifice in the proper perspective of relative danger dangers, Cedric? Please dont give up your current job to become an actuary!

You may not be an hysterical woosie boy, but you sure sound like one. Hide under your bed, Cedric, because the bogey-SCs are coming for you. I tipped them off about you at our last anti-ZOG meeting. They dont like it when you talk bad about them. The next white Dodge Caravan you see may be your last.

Cedric Katesby said...

Another defensive kooky rant.
(yawn)
You have nothing.

So an SC and I would make similar statements about government. So what?

Yes, indeed they would.

Im taking back nothing Cedric. i meant every word.

Oh I believe you.
I really do.
You may not be an SC but you do sound a lot like 'em.

Nick said...

Cedric, you are a pill.

Let me explain this again. I will type it slowly because I know you're not too good at reading...

I work for the government.

I do not oppose federal, state, or local laws as a rule.

I have license plates on my cars.

I pay all of my required taxes, and I have never advocated elimination of all taxes or even most taxes.

If youve read more than one of my posts on WS, you would recognize that I support more government than our splendid host, even though I respect his thoughts and feelings on the matter. I would even give him the benefit of experimenting with certain libertarian ideas like legalization of marijuana, even though I believe the net result to be negative.

In other words, Cedric, my beliefs don't resemble the core beliefs of SCs IN THE SLIGHTEST. By your twisted logic, something or someone who shares one characteristic of a thing IS that thing or RESEMBLES that thing or is in SYMPATHY with that thing. Rover is a cat because Rover has a tail and everyone knows that cats have tails! And cats enjoy Rover's company because Rover has a tail just like they do. And Rover enjoys the company of cats, well, because they are all tailed creatures.

Youre an IDIOT! You would probanly have learned the fallacy of that sort of logic on day 2 of a college philosophy course, because on day 1 the professor handed out and explained his syllabus.

The fact that I have one belief or some beliefs that might make an SC smile does not put me on their team. The fact that I support gay marriage and openly-gay service in the military does not make me an "Ally" of the radical agendas of most LGBTQ groups.

The Southern Poverty Law Center estimates there are about 100,000 "hard core" SCs. Ive never met a single SC in my entire life, after living in seven states and visiting a dozen others. No one has ever heard my beliefs and asked me if I wanted to come to their SC meetings or receive their newsletters. I never heard of a GD SC until you posted that link, and as I said quite clearly, I dont fear SCs any more than I fear a mosquito.

Even if we believe the hysterically exagerated claims of the far-left SPLC, that's less than 0.3% of the US population. And of that 0.3%, only a minuscule portion of them resort to or advocate violence as a means of advancing their cause. Many of them are tax protesters who pose no more threat to anyone than an illegal alien.

So, Cedric, there you have the facts of the matter, clearly demonstrating that you're a whining ninny who is afraid of his own shadow. Youve made some lame comments here before, but youre plumbing new depths on this one.

Cedric Katesby said...

I do not oppose federal, state, or local laws as a rule.
I have license plates on my cars.
I pay all of my required taxes, and I have never advocated elimination of all taxes or even most taxes.


And that is what makes you sound...not like an SC.
It makes a nice change.

In other words, Cedric, my beliefs don't resemble the core beliefs of SCs IN THE SLIGHTEST.

No, your first comment did indeed make you sound like an SC.
You yourself admitted it.
Remember?

So an SC and I would make similar statements about government. So what?

That was the point I made when I posted the video. Nothing more. All the rest of thread came from you.

By your twisted logic, something or someone who shares one characteristic of a thing IS that thing or RESEMBLES that thing or is in SYMPATHY with that thing.

Nope. You are now building a strawman. Not interested.

Your first comments were the same as an SC. That's it.

You want to put some distance between yourself and the extremists out there then talking about carbon monoxide DOES NOT HELP. That just makes it sound that you are trying to deflect.
Saying that you haven't killed anybody also DOES NOT HELP.

The fact that I have one belief or some beliefs that might make an SC smile does not put me on their team.

Sure but it does help create a SC positive-environment. If the rhetoric of US citizens on the internet suddenly started referring to the US government as "the enemy", ordinary people as "slaves" and "Jackboots" on your neck then the SC would be thinking they've hit the big time. If those same US citizens affirmed that they were not just kidding but were absolutely serious then the SC would throw a party.

The same cannot be said for me. I've never put anything out there on the internet that a domestic/foreign terrorist would have something to smile over. And if I had, then I would feel very uncomfortable about it and seek to qualify or openly disown such a statement.
I'm happy to criticise my own government as a citizen but such criticism is mundane stuff that nobody would care much about. It might help to change a government at the polls but it's not going to feed the fantasy of a nutty extremist.

Ive never met a single SC in my entire life, after living in seven states and visiting a dozen others.

Well, how would you know? Maybe you already have but they are low-profile.

Even if we believe the hysterically exagerated claims of the far-left SPLC...

How do you know that they are "hysterically exaggerated"? What alternative sources of information do you have apart from your own personal ancedotes? If you have better numbers, I'll be happy to look at them.

You don't want to be put in the same boat as an extremist?
Good.
Then use the words of a citizen that does not oppose federal, state, or local laws as a rule.
Make it clear that you are a person that would not make a big deal over license plates on their cars.
Speak like someone who pays all of their required taxes, and has never advocated elimination of all taxes or even most taxes.

You want to gripe?
Go ahead.
You want to say that you pay too much in taxes?
Fine. No problem here.

But Jackboots on your neck?
And that's not just engaging in a bit of hyperbole?
That's...not ok. Someone talks like that out in public and they should be called out on it.

Jackboots and oppressive governments exist in the real world. The USA (despite it's many flaws) in the the year 2011 does not qualify.
Not by any stretch of the imagination.
Such talk is better left to the extremists.

Nick said...

Cedric, youre not Interesting enough to continue responding to.

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